A couple more "fixed" news items needed?
jeroen at linuxfromscratch.org
Sun Nov 2 19:16:55 PST 2003
Hi Bill Maltby, LFS Organizational. You said the following on 10/31/03
> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Jeroen Coumans wrote:
>>Hi Bill Maltby, LFS Organizational. You said the following on 10/30/03
>>>My desire for them under the chef stems only from minimal eye and mouse
>>>Not a major thing. Like I said, I'm not GUI oriented. But I am *lazy*.
>>Heh. I think the other way around (I'm GUI oriented) - if there are too
>>many things (images, links, headers, input boxes etc) together, I don't
>>I think a logical visual structure is actually more helpful for the lazy
>>because they don't have to think how to operate the site and should thus
>>find it more easy to get where they want.
> I can really have no strong objection to it, other than my personal
> preferences, which do/should not weigh heavily in the face of the
> considerations you mention.
> Stick with your style and thanks for hearing me out.
Ok, I'll keep your comments in mind.
>>>>>4. I like the search stuff where it's at, but I would like a wider
>>>>> "enter text..." box.
>>Ok, I've set it at 20, that's the maximum without overlapping the logo
>>at 800x600. On a side note: I never use those boxes but use Mozilla's
>>"keywords". I have the following bookmark:
>>with keyword "lfs". When I type "lfs searchterm" in the adress bar,
>>Mozilla automatically brings me to the search results of that query.
> When I get Moz installed, I expect to be able to do things much
> differently in many areas. It's just a slow (re)building process here.
Or you can cheat and install the MozillaFirebird binary distribution...
(build instructions in BLFS, relatively straight-forward).
>>>I do hope that all this org stuff is going to work out and the errata
>>>and other wiki things will be effectively maintained.
>>So do I, but it's harder to update a wiki then it is to send an e-mail.
>>For most people, mailing is all contribution they're willing to give. I
>>can't blame them...
> It's a matter of added value. The wiki content needs to achieve a
> "critical mass" such that a user (more experienced with LFS, anyway)
> will know that a visit to the wiki will likely give faster more complete
> results in a specific area than the alternatives available to them. My
> assumption is that this will occur in only two ways: dedicated
> development of the info content there by team members (and others,
> hopefully) and time.
> So all those supporting it's use need to be active in building it up.
> I'm using it for the Org stuff and plan to add some notes about various
> build items when I finish this BLFS pass.
> A stronger lobbying effort would probably be spurious noise until we get
> some substantial amount content that is not easily discovered via other
That's true. Each medium has it's advantages. The Wiki is really useful
for the creation of support documentation which is community-centered
and should be democratically created. We just need to make sure it isn't
used for things which require tighter control (like a finalized roadmap)
or as a discussion board (that is the purpose of mail/news). Probably
some points for the organizational docs...
>>>As to the roadmap, we will have a stable one and one in development at
>>>any given time. So I thought a link to both would be useful.
>>>But I have a conflicting thought about all this too. Don't know how
>>>valid it is.
>>>For the overall project, there are many "organizational" things.
>>>Roadmaps is certainly one. LFS teams is another. I don't know if it
>>>would be better to plan on linking to all those sorts of things from the
>>>eventual "Organization" link or not. My structured side says this is the
>>>right way to do it. My "user firendly" and "lazy side" says provide
>>>links with minimal navigation. Oh well. Since it is a website and a
>>>major function is navigation, I think a little less of the structural
>>>considerations and more of the ease-of-navigation and minimal traversal
>>>effort is more important.
>>Structural considerations are the basis of an easy and logical
>>navigation. The navigation should be reflected in the structure. Minimal
>>traversal is a layout issue, not a navigation issue. Placing all
>>menulinks on the right side minimizes traversal efforts and focuses on
>>content. We still need to consider the order and categorization of those
>>navigational links. I think we're half-way there, the current navigation
>>structure could be improved a bit. There are two considerations to
>>- user based, ie. what different users visit the site? Each should find
>>their start point relatively easy.
>>- task based, ie. what does the user want to do? It shouldn't take a lot
>>of effort to submit a bug report or to find out where to ask for help.
>>Then we have to consider the information we want to give:
>>- we want to inform people about our organization and "products"
>>- we want to communicate news items for either the whole LFS community
>>or for a specific section
>>- we want to provide easy access to static news items (news releases etc.)
>>- we want people to read about our "products", download them, test them,
>>and provide feedback. We want them to be able to solve mistakes by using
>>support documents, search facilities and communication channels.
>>Based on that we can decide the implementation of navigation. Besides a
>>list of categorically organized links, we could consider a fly-out menu
>>(I used a nice one at http://www.epa.unimaas.nl/whatisepa.html). First
>>of all, we need to consider *how* we organize everything and evaluate
>>the current navigation implementation. What are your thoughts on that?
> I really think you have a better handle on the issues, relative to what
> needs to happen on the website, than I do. But, to try an answer what
> you bring up, here is a brief view of my thoughts.
>>From the info side I see Organization of the project and Product of the
> project. Keeping in mind all you have passed on to me over these several
> posts, I don't see any major changes in the website to the organization
> of the product presentation or it's navigation (just a couple of
> shortcuts we mentioned).
Yep, it certainly seems that way. The current site is a good, stable basis.
> Within the project, anything that is not a "deliverable" might belong in
> Organization: the organization docs, team lists, info about how we do
> things, and roadmaps. Things that are "deliverable", books, support
> forums, ... are all product.
> Another way to determine it: if X was removed, does the user lose
> substantial capability? Book - yes. Support forums - yes. Organization
> docs - no. Roadmap - (qualified) no. Teams list - no.
Yep, that's a good distinction to make. Should also be apparant in the
website. We could combine products into menu-items.
> Within Organization, it seems to me that the usual visitor is mostly
> curious and has esssentially only three tasks: read-all-about-it,
> volunteer, and comment.
> While in that hierarchy, ideas, curiosity, etc. may cause an urge to
> jump to another leg in that hierarchy and it sounds like that "fly-out"
> menu might be just the ticket. But only if we are so complex (I don't
> *think* we are) that a few simple links would not do. As example of how
> my mind works on these, the wiki top level of Orgnization offers links
> to the roadmap and lfs teams. Further down in the organization docs,
> some are offered again, in context.
I don't think a flyout menu is necessary either. The arguments against
them outweight the benefits in our case. I think people are more
stimulated to explore the site when they have lots of choices at a
glance (current layout) then when they'd click to a specific path (with
flyout menus). We have pretty much worked out the organization and
structure and it's reasonably well reflected in the navigation. We need
a Developers section in LFS and an Organization section in the general
navigation. Some menulinks should be adjusted (eg. bugzilla, patches)
but more structural changes aren't necessary.
> I hope this has been useful.
Thanks, I trust you'll keep a critical eye once patches start landing :)
Jeroen Coumans (jeroen at linuxfromscratch.org)
FAQ and Website Maintainer
More information about the website