[lfs-support] Grub Questions (or how to waist yet ... even more ... precious electrons)

Ben Sutter lfs-lists at bensutter.com
Sat Sep 1 20:15:41 PDT 2012


On 09/01/2012 06:49 PM, Eleanore Boyd wrote:
> On a much more serious note, why are you bashing him for
> condescension when your reply was even worse in that regard?

I'm "bashing" him for not doing his homework. Sometimes condescension is
earned; I didn't jump on him after his first post that should never have
happened in the first place, or the second or third. As for severity, I
disagree. He has a trail of replies on this list, like these...

Mikie wrote, at various times:

> what section is this magical step located?

...rather than using Ctrl-F to search the book for the exact command and
finding it on the first try, no googling required.

> you must all realize that many of us "Beginners" are just that.

> A lot of people who are experts at something forget what it's like to
be a beginner.

> The fact is, we beginners will continue to miss things even though
they are in the book.

That's true, for some definitions of "miss." A better word is "ignore."

> LFS does not effectively teach this to anyone other than an already
Linux expert.
> ... and please don't complain to me to Google for another site that is
more suitable for a beginner cause there ain't no such thing people.

> This is the problem when one becomes expertly knowledgeable on a
subject as most (if not all) of you are.
> You forget that the rest of us simply don't know what you're talking
about.
>
> These quick little blerps in the book don't really do anything for us
newbie's to intermediates.

"Quick little blerps"? I think this one takes the prize. Wow, just wow.

> Was it really so painful to exchange three or four emails?
> ... on an email list that purports to teach?
> ... Oh cry for the lost electrons!.

And so on, all the way up to his most recent lecture on how mailing
lists should work, according to him.

Perhaps I chose the wrong word. In hindsight, privileged and snarky
probably would have been more accurate. But aside from that one word,
I stand by the rest of my post.

Back to what Elly wrote:
> Frankly, I think that he's one of the people who just so happens to
> have very little luck with search engines when he needs a simple (or
> complex) answers dealing with Linux.

I don't think luck has anything to do with it. I think it's laziness and
an inability or unwillingness to follow directions. Just a few hours ago
when you suggested he try remastering an existing distro, instead of
typing "remaster linux distro" into Google, he came back with,
"ummm ... how do I do that again?"

> Besides, have you bothered to read these results from his perspective?

Yup. But our paths diverge quite quickly. For example, Mikie would reply
with "What does the -c do?", whereas I would execute "man bash" and
discover that -c is documented on the first page in all but the tiniest
of terminals.

> He's all but just starting out in a world that's drastically different
> from the familiar Windows environment he's used to.

Setting aside the question of whether someone with his skills and
experience should even attempt an LFS build in the first place, I'm not
criticizing him for being unfamiliar with Linux, but that he continues
to try to build LFS by the seat of his pants and ignore basic
instructions, leading to endless questions that might very well not
come up if he were to start over and follow the book, even as a n00b.

In any case, for my part I will leave this Mikie business at that and
apologize to the other list members for lowering the signal to noise ratio.

I see LFS 7.2 is out. It's time to start my first LFS build.

--Ben




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