robert at linuxfromscratch.org
Wed Jul 26 12:01:11 PDT 2006
On July 26, 2006 01:39 pm, Sebastian Faulborn wrote:
> >I want to shuffle the chapter 6 packages to match LFS, and add the utf8
> > stuff. I also want to remove the blfs packages and maybe the network
> > (inetutils and iproute2) packages, to make HLFS a purely development
> > system.
> Maybe we should state the overall goal of HLFS first!
I don't know how to describe the HLFS goal right now. I never felt it was
finalized. I've thought about the HLFS-1.0 roadmap, but its so far away its
hard to put in writing.
> What do you mean by "purely development system"? What should one be able to
> do out of the box? If you remove networking there won't be much of an
> usable system left...
At least for the moment it would keep this book manageable, for the same
reason BLFS is a separate book from LFS. There is a question of whether this
is a 'Hardened LinuxFromScratch' or a 'Hardened Linux From Scratch', if you
catch my drift; I like to think its the later. If HLFS is able to reboot and
rebuild itself I think that's enough. Now that every HLFS toolchain feature
is in the GNU toolchain releases it would benefit everyone to add special
notes about them to the BLFS book, rather than maintaining a fork of BLFS.
Keeping HLFS smaller lets us concentrate on it better, to conduct better
auditing and improvements.
> The HLFS home page states:
> >This book will initially be geared towards building production-quality
> >servers, routers, and firewalls. Many BLFS
> > <http://lfs.aliensoft.org/blfs/index.html> packages will compile and run
> > as-is and work is under way to support the most problematic desktop tools
> > as well.
> I personally think this is still a valid goal.
I think its too broad, but I might be biased because I've always concentrated
on the toolchain. Archaic would be able to comment on this, but I think the
UFO's got him :-\ Hopefully they will return him soon. We had the same wish
but placed them on different shooting stars.
> Also: is it necessary to be so tight on the number of packages in Ch.6?
> Of course there is no need to install unnecessary packages which are
> already explained in BLFS, but things such as gradm etc. are special to
> HLFS and should be included. Other packages are essential to getting a
> minimal working linux system (network). Others (such as blowfish) need to
> be compiled in Ch.6 because they replace existing libraries other packages
> in Ch.6 depend on, etc.
gradm is a valid package to add. It is needed in order to take advantage of
the grsecurity kernel patch. Blowfish too, because to add it later means
rebuilding packages from chapter 6, and/or following a hint while building
the system... HLFS was born to put hints and howtos together under one roof.
Some of us got tired of following half a dozen howtos while building a
modified LFS. HLFS is still missing a few things, such as instructions for
read-only and/or encrypted filesystem. Keep in mind these things are
> So I think that it's impossible to reduce the number any further - we
> probably need to increase the number of installed packages in Ch.6 by 2 or
> If you want to include UTF8 you should be aware that there are still lots
> of problems with UTF8. I still have to find a distro which supports UTF8 in
> the same unproblematic way as say "en_US". Eg. I have not yet seen a distro
> which manages to display correctly man pages, allows you to compile perl
> modules out of the box and has a properly setup vim in German locale with
I don't plan to work much on the UTF8 problem, but I'll add what LFS does with
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